Brokers and advisers: Strategies for brokers of all sizes

Hear from a panel of brokers different strategies and best practices.

Transcription:

Stephanie Schomer (00:08):

Thank you guys for being here. My name's Stephanie Schomer. I'm the editor and Chief of Employee Benefit News. Appreciate you guys being here with us today for a discussion on strategies for brokers of all sizes. I have a wonderful panel here. I will start at my far left with Butch Zemar, Director of Benefits, the benefits division of Elite Benefits of America. He is joined by Patrick Moore, president of Moore Benefit Resources, and Adam Michaels, founder and CEO of Enroll I. Before we dive into the conversation gentleman, I would love if you can each just kind of tell us a bit about your organization, who you serve, where you're based a little bit about your background as well. So Butch, we can start with you.

Butch Zemar (00:48):

Oh, thanks. I'm Butch Zemar from the Chicago and area, been in the business 18 years started a captive organ at a captive organization and then went independent, sold the agency thinking that was going to solve all our small business problems, didn't work out. Then purchased it back to go back on my own about three years ago and that's really about it. There's going to be some rivalry up here from the Navy and this guy is from the Marine, so just be beware.

Stephanie Schomer (01:20):

They also already got a baseball fight earlier.

Butch Zemar (01:22):

Yes. Yeah.

Stephanie Schomer (01:24):

So just be warned Patrick, we will kick it to you.

Patrick Moore (01:26):

To you. Absolutely pleasure everyone. Thanks for being here. My name is Pat Moore, I'm the President of Axim. What we do is focus completely in one niche and that niche is government contractors and so I find that 5% of people know what that is and 95% so for the 5% of the people that do is there anybody that knows what I'm talking about when I say government contractors? There we go. We got some, yeah. Davis Bacon Act service. Yeah, sca. So yeah, that is my focus. I've had two careers my whole life. When I was 18 years old, I joined the United States Marine Corps on August 17th, 2001. Had a reserve career my entire life. Outside of that, I've been in the insurance and employee benefit space. Saw big and large a light that's in the other room. I started there that used to be called Hewitt Associates. Started my career there in the very large market, fortune 500 field and have kind of dispensed and worked in every size and branch from there. So looking forward to this panel.

Adam Michaels (02:31):

Adam, awesome. Probably like most of you in this room, 25 years ago, I stumbled into the insurance business in terms of things I was going to be in life. This ranked somewhere near Catholic priest. It's funnier when you realize I'm Jewish. I was started at my career as a broker and fella stumbled across this little podunk redneck hillbilly insurance company that was doing Section 1 25 administration that now has a famous duck became their number one broker in the country and fell into that ecosystem. Built the Baltimore Washington market in 1995 and then pioneered Chicago where I ran into Butch DeMar years ago and then moved southern California, took over an agency and decline, grew it to 700 agents and almost 50 million in sales. And then spent five years as a corporate executive. Five years long enough to know that I wasn't a very good corporate employee.

(03:32)

Led a team of 5,000, did quarter billion in voluntary work site sales. 2017, I swore it off. I wrote a book, I did some consulting and then I stepped back with all the subject matter expertise and looked at what I thought was a broken ecosystem that ironically wasn't benefiting anybody. We saw in the last session we talked about benefits. I saw Silicon Valley trying to disintermediate legacy distribution and remove people from the equation. I saw in consumers increasingly frustrated. I saw employers frustrated with growing costs and I realized in my opinion there was a lot of friction and fragmentation in the market. And we sought to, rather than disintermediate, was to remove that friction and fragmentation through a technology platform that would democratize access to the tools and the people and the strategy once products were chosen to drive employee engagement and then offer empathetic decision support at scale. So today we have a national footprint of over 4,000, what we call benefit gurus that can be mobilized to talk to consumers for the equivalent of Geek Squad for employee benefits. So we're used by h and b entities from enrollment firms to agencies to carriers as an operational backbone to accomplish those things.

Stephanie Schomer (04:50):

Awesome, thank you. I wanna start off by talking a little bit about some of the specific pain points that you guys are really trying to solve for the various communities that you serve. And you touched on them a little bit but really when it comes to delivering the best results, what's the biggest challenge that each of you are facing? But I'll kick it back to you to take this one to start, please.

Butch Zemar (05:09):

Sure. I mean there's a lot of variety of issues that we run across. Some of it's just attracting great talent, but I know in the south side of Chicago there's definitely a price sensitivity to a lot of the smaller employers under a hundred employees over a hundred. It could change the game a little bit, but one example small group renewal we went through all the options. They did not wanna move from the carrier, they decided to remain the same even if there were potentially with savings. And then they end up switching six months later just because of a cost issue. And so price wins in a lot of spaces and I would say the south side of Chicago has a culture for it. But it just varies because definitely now going forward with great resignation, people moving it's definitely a talent attraction that they're trying to solve right now.

Stephanie Schomer (06:03):

And Patrick,

Patrick Moore (06:06):

I mean Stephanie, what I've seen is just the rent is too damn high. Medical insurance too expensive. There's a lot of, you guys all bring a lot of great solutions, a lot of the vendors that are here. But it gets clouded out because of the cost of health insurance. And so often as brokers almost in every vertical, we're focused on fixing that number one problem. And so until that's fixed, a lot of the other things don't come to the table unless you're a very large Fortune 500 employer that has a big HR staff that can take the time to implement all those different solutions. And it's what we focus on the most. And quite frankly the things that are talked about in health insurance are the things that just don't matter. We spend a ton of time on making sure all the communication is where it's supposed to be. We take a lot of time making sure we have the right plan designs in place, we can do everything but every day we see in the claims data that hospitals over bill to the tunes of hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single claim. And so the things we focus on in this industry on a legacy perspective don't matter. And so going forward, the things that really make a difference is owning that data and becoming masters at it.

Stephanie Schomer (07:29):

And I wanna loop back to that, but Adam, I know that you have a lot of feelings about this when it comes to actually the communications and the delivery. So take it away and then we'll kind of dive into some more

Adam Michaels (07:38):

Of this. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people that are in this room that are a lot better at sifting through all the stuff and finding solutions. But I think the biggest problem we have is bias. The challenge that we face in our industry is that there's no correlation between cost and quality. And consumers are not active. The employees are not active, they're disengaged, they're mostly apathetic. 92% of them default to what they did previously. 80% of them are in the wrong coverage. Either overin short or overexposed. They're spending 1400 bucks a year, 50% of them are dissatisfied leading to employee turnover 27% of the time. These are all really problems. And obviously identifying that problem is why we decided that the problem was neutralizing apathy and providing agnostic, empathetic decision support. I think the other problem that our industry faces is that engagement and education has really been shouldered by carriers that are myopically focused on selling more shit. And so until you detach the sale of product from agnostic education that's empathetic and really is about caring for a consumer you're going to continue to have people buying too much of something or being an ill-fitting coverage or whatever else it is. And until you move people off the snide, until you get them, that's a south side term, until you can get them to actually not look to sounds

Patrick Moore (09:11):

Dirty,

Adam Michaels (09:12):

Not look to their neighbor and say, well what did you do this year? They have all these, you've gotta unravel some of that. So I think it's about delivering this narrative of caring to move people into engagement from the people that are spending all the money and then offering this bridge to understanding. So I think that's what we're focused anyway.

Stephanie Schomer (09:39):

What are some of the best practices that you guys have found to do that effectively and to Patrick and Butch's point lower the costs, what are you guys seeing that has really worked? What are the tricks and tips that you can share with this

Butch Zemar (09:53):

Audience? Well definitely on an education track, try to retool or provide resources to the employee base as well as the employer. And then obviously move them to different product lines that'll allow them to have the capability and get the reports and analysis so they can make better outcome and better decisions. We incentivize them to provide incentives for the employees to make better decisions on their healthcare. And so those are some of the things that I know we're working on that try to help lower the cost and then move them into a different direction. The industry has taught employers how to shop for health insurance and now we just have to unwind it, move 'em in a different direction.

Patrick Moore (10:34):

That's fair. I'm kind of curious, are we mostly brokers in this audience? Are we vendors in this audience? I don't know who I'm talking to. I'd like to know one hand in the air if you're a broker. Yeah, I need to know. Know vendors. Okay. Fascinating. Fascinating. Okay. Yeah. So as far as going back to cost and quality and how to bring the communications a kind of full circle, I think quite frankly we focused on having employees make the right decision in these circumstances. I don't think they can I don't they're ever going to be for a very long period of time, genuinely scared me. I was just falling over. They I, they don't know the quality. They dunno what anything costs. And so putting that on their plate is not the solution that we look tools. We like to do those things on the back end keeping the cost low, encouraging from a macro perspective, maybe the right hospitals to use things of those natures, but kind of taking those decisions out of their hands.

Adam Michaels (11:45):

And I'll just use an example of this. So we supported a Fortune 500 company, which is not our normal, we're up and down the market, but we supported a Fortune 500 financial services company last year that wanted to move their employed population to a narrow health plan or a curated health plan or whatever other branding you wanna call it. But a more financially effective solution. Active education led to a hundred percent increase of utilization over self-directed, right? So I think the problem and what you're identifying is self-directed. No one's putting together the right benefits package with a handbook and a web portal. And AI bots are using 20 yards of bad data to get people to bad decisions faster. That's all it's happening. And we as an industry are listening to Silicon Valley and when they try to disintermediate a lot of us with Zs, right, they're doing the same thing today with the agent at the enrollment point.

(12:42)

And so I think that and a light, who's they in the room now? So I know they're in the main room, they cater to only the Fortune 500 cuz it's so damn expensive. And so I think there is a way to move the needle on these things, but we could whiteboard out a hundred different ways to contain costs if you can't move the needle on employee behavior, most of them just think they're paying for a very expensive healthcare member or health club membership that if they actually use it, they have to pay a $3,500 deductible before they start going. So they don't go, they don't use it, but they're spending money every single month to get that health club membership. And it's incredibly frustrating for consumers and it's also frustrating for employers who are watching the cost go up at twice the rate of inflation and three times rate of wages. And so I think there are a lot of different ways to do it and I think we're charged with it otherwise the government's going to step in and try to come up. They're trying to win elections with it, which is even more problematic.

Stephanie Schomer (13:47):

Butch, where do you fall on this? I know when we have talked about this idea of consumerism and healthcare, it's on one hand it is what it is, but obviously Patrick has strong feelings about it, which are valid. Where are you? Is it we have to accept what's being forced upon people in some capacity or how are you guys managing?

Butch Zemar (14:05):

That's a great question. So I definitely empower in the employees is definitely key. And so I always use the analogy of if we went out and we paid $40,000 in a car, we would know every button within a week. And so even if you're cost sharing with the employer and you're spending $40,000 on healthcare, and I'm making that number up, but we don't know where the buttons are at. And so we don't take the time, nobody invests the time and then all of a sudden clean time occurs and it's already too late. Why isn't this working the way we're sup it's supposed to, but no one's taken the time to actually understand how it works. It's not terribly complicated to understand at least some formality of it. You don't need to become an expert. And then some of our clients, I mean five minutes in a phone call with us will save them hours worth of time and when they're trying to fiddle through it.

Stephanie Schomer (14:54):

Great. And Patrick, I know you mentioned owning data. Can you speak a little bit more about that and how that factors into this? Because it's talking about a lot of human touch points here, but that data is obviously so important to all of the work that you guys do.

Patrick Moore (15:06):

Yeah, I mean great question. So the opportunity that's out there right now, I think we're kind of in a reset in the employee benefit space with the new regulations that have passed. When I started this industry the ACA was this differentiator that made a new kid on the block just as good as someone that's been in this business for 30 years at that point. Cuz it was all different. It was wrong then and it's wrong now and it's changed again. So the regulations that pass with the consolidated Appropriations Act, lots of legislation, we have more access to data from hospital transparency the whole game's different. And so you being able to track that data and have access to it and then store it and make it usable, it's turning all these technology pieces almost more important than anything we talk about on the insurance side. And so as a broker in this space, you can recreate yourself. If you're just getting in this game, you're almost more lethal than someone who's been doing it a long time because the way we've done this business since I've been in it has been wrong.

Stephanie Schomer (16:16):

I wanted to ask you guys about that idea of concierge service. Again, this is very important to the work that all of you do. You're all coming from very different organizations, very different sizes of organizations, different resources, but that has been a common theme about that human connection, making sure people have a person to speak to guide them through is Butch just said you can save hours of a headache with one call. How do you guys really deliver that? Butch, I know you're a team of three Patrick, I think you have around 40 employees and then you're working with a network of 4,000 of these folks. So how can brokers of all sizes support employers of all sizes to really deliver that person to person experience and guidance?

Adam Michaels (17:00):

Well I think you need solutions. So I think that's the first thing. So in check it out, hit me up on LinkedIn. No, just kidding.

Stephanie Schomer (17:10):

You gotta go now.

Adam Michaels (17:11):

No there's obviously resources out there. I think that a lot of those entities out there that haven't been bought up by the US size and the Brown and Browns and the larger Congo, the consolidation that's happened, I think that's what they kind of position and they talk about. But 93% of Americans surveyed say that they want a person to talk to. I always say, you know, wouldn't buy $20,000 worth of technology and try to install the handbook and a web portal. You'd have Geek Squad come out, they'd install everything. So we're focused on the front end and I think the back end, the concierge mean every health plan out there now has an EAP element or has some sort of advocacy attached to it. It's a very low cost solution. Those that don't have it should have it, but I don't think people know to use it.

(18:02)

They don't know to where to go to at that time. And I think HIPAA makes it a little funky. Nobody wants to disclose that they've got an issue. And I think the health insurance carriers don't have a real interest in being proactive because they want to miss bill hundreds of thousands of dollars and show their shareholders big massive billion, multi-billion dollar returns. And so I don't know the answer on the back end today. We're focused on the front end and I think if we can get people into the right coverage, it's a good start. Helping them navigate it is a whole other story.

Patrick Moore (18:43):

I mean it's everything that was just talked about in the first session. It's like this merge of people on technology and having to be good at both of them, whether it is enrolling for the first time or whether it's making medical choices on the back end. Having technology and resource or technology and people that can help in both those situations. Makes sense. To my point, just like the consumer, the employees that we serve, they can't make those decisions on their own. They're never going to be able to, I think down the road they might be able to, but where we sit they can't now. And having people that can help guide them that do have education is huge.

Butch Zemar (19:26):

I agree with both of you. The only thing I would add is I think skin in the game is definitely important. We've gone so many years where things were just taken care of for the employee base, the low out of pocket or no out of pocket premiums were paid for. They had no financial incentive to actually invest the time. And so I think with time with technology and pieces of the puzzle that we could help provide resources for that, I think it'll help piece the puzzle together and hopefully people put a little more skin in the game because if they're financially responsible for, bless you for their healthcare like they do with other areas of their life, they would spend a little bit of time to figure it out because it's going to cost them more

Adam Michaels (20:10):

Money in the long run. No, always say the two places where you see the most kind of really just imbalanced cost or college and healthcare. And the reason is, and neither one of those buying situations is anyone asks what the price is. They in college they just say, can I get a loan for this? And as long as they can get a loan for it, they're in, doesn't matter what the cost is. And at healthcare they just say, is it covered? And if it's covered they do it. There's no shopping. I think there are some interesting solutions out there. I don't know if you've seen Sidecar, but I think Sidecars a really interesting kind of platform that allows, uses data, uses information to empower the consumer to then go and negotiate. I think the negotiation part takes a sophisticated consumer to do it but it's almost more of a cash purchase type of situation.

(20:57)

So I think the industry is actually moving towards some of these creative things. I just don't know that they're broad enough yet to make major splashes. I think on a case by case basis they can be really useful, but it doesn't come without the bias that already exists. When you say to people, what's the best health insurance coverage, immediately 80% of people will go ppo. Or why do you think that's a better option? Well it's the broadest network and it's the maximum flexibility. Well if you're paying $300 a month more for a PPO than you are for an hmo, like why wouldn't you just pay for your kid's pediatrician, visit cash and stay in the hmo? Because when you're hospitalized it's the same hospital and consumers just aren't thinking that way. So we have confirmation bias that we're up against. We're up against just pure bias.

(21:49)

What are you doing? What are you doing? Okay, that's what I need to do. This is the way that consumers are making decisions that we have to kind of disrupt and we have to change. And again, some of the problem is that most of the education and engagement is going to somebody who's only focused on selling universal life insurance and not really helping that consumer have that conversation of, well that's when you use your HSA or that's, have you thought about this type of thing? Or your company has this HRA in place so that you can cover those expenses. Cuz again, if we can get people into the right coverage, we've heard self-insured and we've heard some of these other things, all of those are solutions. But if we can't get that person, and I think you and I are actually more aligned than I first thought. I think it's not about limiting choices, it's about helping them make the right choices.

Patrick Moore (22:42):

No, there's a lot of truth there. I think in going back to just strategies for brokers and where they sit at large, small, medium size all over the place niches is just a good place to start. When you start in the world of employee benefits, there's more things than that you're supposed to know than you can possibly ever know. Cuz your main core competency is health insurance, the most complicated thing in this entire country. And that's the thing you're supposed to be an expert at. One thing that's been great for my career, great for me is focusing on certain industries and becoming an expert in that industry and being able to lock down an entire subject. So you're the expert that people come to. So going back to the government contracting world very few people understand it. The compliance factors that are in that world, if you speak to that to a CEO or a CFO that runs a government contractor and what Davis Bacon Actor Service Contract Act is they immediately know that you speak their language and you can speak to them. But if you're someone that is more of a generalist, you don't have that trust immediately built in. So I think as I think about advice I would give to brokers in the employee benefit space, find a niche and stick to it. Whether that's construction companies, whether that's school districts, whether that's going after the industries that people aren't typically going after, which is retailer fast food, there are solutions for all that. Find it and own those solutions. Be an expert in the room.

Stephanie Schomer (24:31):

Butch, I see you nodding down there and I did wanna ask, I'm so interested in your journey from selling to a larger firm than buying your book back to, because you said it didn't solve the small business issues that you hoped it would solve. So now that you've kind of gone full circle, what has that empowered you to do more effectively?

Butch Zemar (24:51):

That's a great question. So I guess the quick answer would be is larger firms are a big ship in the ocean and so it's harder to turn, harder to make moves. They're set in course. And whereas I'm not saying small firms are always more nimble because some of 'em are afraid and they don't wanna make the moves, but large firms are afraid too. But it definitely gave insight on large firms, small firm, like you said, a wall sizes, the resources are available at our fingertips. There's so much that's available today than 10, 15 years ago that weren't available to the smaller firms. So it could be from, even though I'm smaller, there's a whole bunch of partners and so I may not have all the technology pieces, but I can get with other vendors that could make that happen. So it definitely gives a little bit more insight to all that and access to certain things. But the transition definitely was more one of the issues I had is more entrepreneurship, big corporate environment like you had mentioned you worked for that big company and it's like the new ideas coming to the table are not so fitting in that boardroom.

(26:07)

But other companies I'm sure. But that was one of the big experiences where you're bringing new ideas, like you were talking about niches. So you're bringing niche to the table and see if they want to invest in it. And then it's just harder because now it goes through a process and it's like the sales prevention model and then it just slows the whole ship down and then you're still in the middle of the ocean trying to figure out which direction you're going.

Patrick Moore (26:30):

Well Butch was just describing as why the Marine Corps is the most deadliest fighting force on the pace of the planet.

Patrick Moore (26:37):

Hoorah. Yep. Hoorah.

Stephanie Schomer (26:39):

On that note. Yes. I think we have time for a couple questions if anyone wants to ask these gentlemen. Anything

Adam Michaels (26:47):

Impressive I just to distr there. Sure. I think that we don't do enough in conversations to ask our audience what their biggest issues are. Like what's your biggest issue? And I think right now there's a defining moment in our industry that hasn't, nothing has happened as big as Covid since September 11th in terms of financial security. Great timing by the way but I'm good at that. September 11th changed the way that we got on airplanes. And every one of you that came here on a plane, you took your shoes off or you went through security in a totally different way. And nobody's tried to board the plane with another shoe bomb since that war on tried to do it all those years ago. And yet we still have these changes and I think Covid has measurably changed our industry. The biggest mistake is to think it's going to go back to way the way it once was.

(27:41)

And we need to figure out a way to be more nimble to meet consumers where they are and solve the real issues that HR departments are having. So if we had a room full of HR people, they would tell you about five generations in the workforce. They would talk to you about hyper-personalization. They would talk to you about, I've got kids that are 25 years old that are on their parents Obamacare, who they're only concern is fluffy and they're not concerned about health insurance or the ppo. And I, that's my target audience cuz that's coming outta college, bringing the ideas. But I also have people that are in their seventies or on Medicare and how do I have one benefits package for all these people? H how do we serve? All of those needs have become a destination. There is a battle for talent and there may be some cooling down of the economy and maybe unemployment will go back.

(28:34)

But I think that people have reset their kind of expectations of the employer. I, a lot of the vendors that are here are doing things that are innovative, that are interesting, that are creative, that are speaking to those different subpopulations. And so I think the requirement of us is to actually find out what the problems are of the client. What are the issues that you're facing and how has covid changed the way that you're addressing those? I think we hear the same things as always. Low, high cost, low ROI, employee dissatisfaction, the turnover that's associated with benefits. It's a quarter of all turnover is related to benefits. That's a problem that 25% of the population saying, I'm leaving here because the benefits suck and it's probably not, the benefits suck. It's that the person doesn't appreciate them, they don't value them, they don't understand the $20,000 that's going into 'em.

(29:35)

And so then you add all these new things, liability. So what's the vendor liability going to be going forward? We haven't even faced those legal issues yet. We will. And we're one school shooting away from anyone who works in the public sector from never having access again on site. So vendors, how are you going to reach those clients when that opportunity or that relationship shuts down? It's not going to be brown bag lunches anymore. Do you have the technology that enables you to have the hyper personalized high-touch engagement using high tech tech solutions? I think that's really some of the things that we're dealing with right now in this moment. That if you master them, you can differentiate and win all size businesses. Don't just think of it in the market that you're comfortable with, but you can go upmarket and bring solutions that Mercer's not talking about today, that aons not talking about today. And you can go out there and really carve yourself a heck of a niche in the process. Cool.

Stephanie Schomer (30:39):

Great. Thank you guys. We ran a little over, oh we can take, squeeze it in. Sorry Steph.

Audience 1 (30:45):

By the time the employee or the consumer is engaged in the process, the cake is pretty much fake. There's this benefits, there's this, and I heard that you want a more intelligent consumer, a more engaged employee, and they're going to be asked to make certain category of decisions. Can you help me understand what types of decisions you want them to intelligently make and by proxy will understandable code information to deliver to them? So how intelligent are these people supposed to get and what are they supposed to be intelligent about?

Adam Michaels (31:25):

Yeah, so I think my personal opinion, I think that you were directing that to me or was it that, so I think my take on that is that you need the person who's doing the educating to be, we call 'em gurus, but you need them to be fully aware of the entire robot end to end all of it. And then they need to be empathetic. They need to have a conversation and a dialogue with this person and find out what's important to you, what keeps you up at night, what are all your concerns, what do you right? And have that transparent conversation that HR can't because of HIPAA and brokers can't because they don't have bandwidth. And that's where the difference makes, that's how people feel cared for. And when people feel cared for, that's where they start to appreciate the benefits. When they are guided with out anything other than with no agenda other than helping this person, it's a very different experience for that person. So it's not that there's this many decisions, it's not like, oh well I'm going to pull those off the table and make it easier for you. I need all the decisions to be there for everyone to be as broad as possible possible. But how am I going to navigate through the Cheesecake Factory menu?

Audience 1 (32:42):

So you're not going to send them an email that's going to inform them to make brilliant decisions?

Adam Michaels (32:49):

No, and I'm not going to print off a handbook and expect that to happen either. I

Audience 1 (32:55):

Appreciate that. And so if you make that approach, how many gurus per hundred employees or per hundred.

Adam Michaels (33:05):

Consumers, it really is math. So I think you need the 45 minutes to an hour per employee allocated. Not that everyone's going to use that time, but I think they need to be guided. And if that's not enough time, you set a second appointment, it's a $20,000 decision. You don't make 20 people spend six weeks to buy a television set. They spend 32 minutes reviewing their benefits, right? This is a major problem in this equation. So 45 minutes to an hour per employee and then it's just math back into the number I need a hundred hours, that's either 10 benefit counselors for 10 hours or it's a hundred for one hour or it's whatever. It's just math. And again, what we're do, being a little selfish, we're basically aggregating those people with credentials so that you can select them at your will.

Audience 1 (34:01):

Thanks.

Stephanie Schomer (34:02):

Alright, we do have to wrap up, but thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you to Butch, to Patrick and Adam. I know we have one more. We'll get you guys off the stage. Thank you. And thank you to our

Adam Michaels (34:12):

Audience. Appreciate Thanks guys.

Stephanie Schomer (34:13):

Thank You.