HR professionals: Management/leadership training

How improving change management in times of uncertainty and how upskilling and educating staff to leadership positions are the keys to retention

Transcription:

Paola Peralta (00:08):

Hello and welcome to today's panel, which is HR Professionals Management and Leadership Training. I will be your moderator, I'm Paola Peralta, associate editor with Employee Benefit News, and I am so happy to introduce my lovely panelist, Mike Lamm, who is the vice president and head of people at monday.com. And Jessica Kim, CEO of ianacare. And so if you guys would like to go and introduce yourself, that would be great.

Mike Lamm (00:32):

After you. Okay, go ahead.

Jessica Kim (00:35):

So I am Jessica Kim co-founder and CEO of iCare. We are a new model of support for working family caregivers. So essentially we are the front door to navigating all the care that is needed in the home for all conditions, all ages. So everything from children with special needs to a spouse with cancer to elder parents. So you are probably wondering, wait a second, am I in the wrong session? Why are we talking about maning and upskilling? So what we do is we work with a lot of employers of all sizes, and a big part of making sure that they are ready to support their employees through this care support has been this fascinating gap that we discovered that we have been doing a lot of manager and leadership training on how employees work with their coworkers and how leaders lead their team. In this new world where so many things are uncertain, there is this fundamental shift in how we live, work in care, and so the leaders that need to be trained, and we are doing all this training on just how do you be empathetic yet sturdy. And so just having all of that training is really what we have had experience on and that is what we are here to talk about today.

Paola Peralta (01:52):

Amazing.

Mike Lamm (01:54):

Yes, and I will go from there. So I am Mike. I am the VP of people@monday.com. I feel like I could talk about monday.com for

Paola Peralta (02:03):

About 30 minutes. that is right.

Mike Lamm (02:06):

It could do everything. But monday.com, if you have not heard of it, it is a platform that really democratizes the power of software. I mean, you can apply it in many different use cases, work management crm, marketing many different cases. But from an organizational perspective, I lead our people team in the Americas and we are based in Israel, our headquarters. We have probably about 1500 employees globally and we are trying to continue to grow here in the Americas and we are around three to 400 now. And so my responsibilities are within hr, business, partnering, recruiting people, experience benefits, all of those things are sort of rolling up to me. And that is sort of been my career up until Monday as well. I worked at a company called Squarespace Company called BASF. it is just sort of where I have played. So I am excited to be on the stage with both of these esteemed guests, I guess you could say while also talking about the topic of that I am really passionate about and I think that it will be a lot of fun.

Paola Peralta (03:13):

And so Let us jump right in. Let us do it. And so obviously we are in a very unique environment right now with the workforce today. And so what are some of the biggest changes we have seen to the whole landscape of upscaling and leadership training programs? What are some of the ways that it has evolved to fit the need that we have today?

Mike Lamm (03:32):

I can start. Great. I think that as you think about leadership in general, really it is been redefined, I would say in the last couple of years in the approach to what leadership is. And I think that that challenges HR practitioners, people who are in leadership themselves and people who are responsible for leadership development to also redefine what that means for you and your organization. And so in conversations that Jessica and I have had about this, it is talked about topics related to empathy and major I guess not even economic, but just major large scale topics that we have had to deal with, whether it is the pandemic or social justice issues or just things that are happening in our lives that employees are bringing to work every single day. They could be things that are going on within the home, outside of the home. And so a leader is someone who is not only responsible within the business to drive business growth and make sure that things are going well in the office, but there is a caring element or there is a responsibility there to take care of your employees in ways that I wish it had been that way for more than just the last few years.

(04:48)

But even more so, I think that we expect and need leaders to step up in new and different ways. And so when you think about leadership development, the programs and curriculums that you are putting together, trainings that you are bringing even vendors in for what I have seen is sort of a categorical shift in less about job experience and the things that you need to do in order to be a leader at this company from a business perspective, all very important, but it is sort of everything else that you need in order to be a really great leader. And so those are some of the things that we have really been brainstorming over the last few days. But

Jessica Kim (05:22):

Yeah, absolutely. I think in the last panel, and I see speaker back there I love the phrase that you said where we are no longer robots, we are humans. And so when you think about leadership and managers this is such a critical pivotal point where everyone wants to be seen as a human, as a whole person, but we were not trained to lead in that way. And so we always see managers are the first responders in the work environment. If you think about first responders that we all know that term now due to the pandemic managers are the first ones to notice when someone is burnt out, when they are starting to be off, when they are feeling distracted, when something personal or professional is happening. And we all say lead with empathy, but if you lead with too much empathy, well, not too much, empathy is the wrong word, but if you lead with you are too accommodating, then you are not productive. And that is stressful for everybody. But then if you lead with no heart, that single interaction with that one manager could be the reason why that employee leaves. And so the upskilling and the skill that we need to really focus on now is all about how do we as humans lead other humans, but stay productive as an organization. And it is something that we are all going through in a way that we have never been before. And so that is the focus of the upskilling that we need to.

Paola Peralta (06:46):

Yeah, because I feel like when I used to think about upskilling, it was really much, how do we get employees up to date on tech and how do we get employees up to date on policies? But now it seems like it is very much just changing the way managers and other employees interact with each other. And so when you talk about things like leading with empathy, how do you train upscale people to be able to do that? What are some of the things that you guys put into place to make sure that, what is the nitty gritty on getting someone to lead with empathy or fixing that in your workforce?

Mike Lamm (07:18):

Yeah, I mean there is the classroom trainings and things like that we all know that are mildly effective I guess you could say. But what I have found that is been really helpful is just being transparent about the resources that are available to managers in situations like this. I even think about Jessica, your organization and some of the things that you are able to bring to the table to support employees and managers in these situations where they are dealing with employees who are bringing new and things that maybe they have not had to deal with before to the workplace. And so the upskilling around the empathy and all of those things that we have talked about, what is really helpful is just tell them what they have to work with. What are the ways that you can address these things as they come up in the workplace? It should not be a black box.

(08:08)

They should not have to guess. The way that you can make a manager effective is obviously giving them the soft skills and letting 'em know this is how you have a conversation, this is how you share feedback, this is how you do these sort of things. But also just putting it out there. These are the resources available to you as a manager, this is how you can use them effectively. These are the case studies that we have seen where they have worked really well and maybe I would avoid this. So that is kind of what we do at Monday as well. When we go through the process of bringing new managers on, we are obviously, we talk about our culture and we talk about what is, what is the way that we want to talk to our employees and how we want to treat our employees, but we also make it very transparent, here are all the things that you can use to be a great manager and that we make available to you on day one. And so I think that there is an approach sort of development that you can go through, but then it is also just being really transparent about here is what we can provide to you to do a great job.

Jessica Kim (09:01):

Yeah, I love that. And I think to realize that people want this type of training, that it is not a super soft skill that is a nice to have, but this is actually what is top of mind for all your leaders and managers today. And so our most popular training that we do we do not even call it training actually, we call it a gathering and it is very interactive with in our chats but we bring in executive coaches and we talk about sturdy, yet empathetic leadership. And there is this whole beautiful analogy of this really strong tree with a really strong trunk with deep roots. So you have to stay firm in what has to happen, but your branches and your leaves are kind of flowing with what your team needs, where you can embrace them. And I think it is just more conversational in that way and interactive where people can share their own stories or their own struggles.

(09:57)

And we always get 40 to 50% more engagement on that than a typical manager training. And so it shows people want this, they wanna know all the tactical things. So what Mike's saying is literally, what words am I allowed to and not allowed to ask? There are legal implications to what a manager can ask about your personal life that can literally make that person, I mean, you don't wanna go as far as a lawsuit, but make them feel like this organization is so wrong by that one manager's reaction. And so when we think about retention and warren talent, it is like one conversation with a manager could make that difference. So that is why it is so important.

Paola Peralta (10:39):

No, and obviously we are dealing the great resignation is something that we are hearing across every industry across that is the buzzword right now. And people are leaving their organizations for everything from bad managers to even just wanting to pursue something else. And so this may seem like such a silly question, but for managers who maybe think, or for HR executives who maybe think we do not need this kind of upscaling in our organization, what are some of the biggest consequences that they could face if this is not something that they begin to implement into their own companies?

Mike Lamm (11:10):

it is the war on talent that that Jessica, I mean this is what leadership is. I mean, this is the new, again, it is sad to say new, but just this is the way that I think that really successful companies are approaching leadership. And when you go through an interview process and you feel that you feel it come through the interview and the employees and how they talk about leadership and the culture and all of that it is just, I think about leaders as talent scouts at our organization. I think of them as culture carriers, change agents. there is so many roles that leaders play that this is critical that we have this skillset in our organization in order to make sure that we get great talent, but we keep them as well. And so yes, the great resignation and all those things are real in some ways, but no matter what we should be focusing on this as just a core competency moving forward because that is what a lot of companies are doing. So if you are behind, you are going to lose. So

Jessica Kim (12:16):

Absolutely. I mean, I feel like the reason why people are in that organization is to do work, right? Because we are an employee, we all work at the same place to produce something. And the number one productivity killer is when you don't feel seen or heard, it kills your day. You do not find that motivation. And when managers and leaders are not equipped in this new way of understanding, how do I manage you as a human then productivity totally drops. it is really interesting cuz then the panel, so I was so excited about this topic, but after sitting in some of these other panels all the time throughout the, I was like, that is why manager training is important. That is why leadership important, important. Because they are all talking about Jerry from Aflac, the VP of hr, Aflac, she was just talking about how people were man, did not know how to manage in this remote world when people had that green button and Microsoft teams, if you are there, or yellow if you were available, but not quite at your desk and gray if you were totally offline. And people that didn't know how to read that just said, well, this person's always gray, so I am not going to promote them. But it is like, what if they were gray because they were trying to focus and not be on teams or something like that. So without this lack of actual tactical understanding of how to manage in today's world, you can promote the wrong people, lose a lot of great talent. It literally comes down to that day-to-day interaction.

Mike Lamm (13:43):

Just to piggyback on that, we are dealing, especially in our industry, we are dealing with remote work as being this thing that obviously everyone is defaulting to. And for organizations that are not necessarily ready for that or they want to lead with hybrid, there is an upskilling that needs to happen for your more experienced or people who have been in the industry for a while to, I mean, as simple as it is managing remote teams, but it is more than that. it is exactly what you just said. How do you manage a team and set expectations around productivity while at the same time meeting people where they are? And if they are not going to be on Slack or teams or whatever it is for a little bit, that is fine. But what is more important is you are building the relationship of transparency where on your team, there should be chemistry in the way where you could say, listen, I am going to be off Slack for three hours.

(14:33)

I am going to get my work done. it is not a big deal, but I have to step away. I have to a one year old daughter, I have to take my daughter to swimming lessons at three 30, so I am going to take her to the pool and then I will be back. For some people that is real, that as simple as that statement is, that is kind of hard to manage in a way. Well then what does that mean? When are you going to be back? When are you going to get your work done? All that, especially in more tactical teams where there is maybe a shift, you are working in all that. So I think that there is a really important thing that we talk about a lot is just as you embrace this remote environment, what does leadership mean in that way? And it is upskilling all of those little nuances.

Paola Peralta (15:13):

And another really huge trend is just that people do not stay at companies as long as they used to. I mean, now retention has gone down a lot, has almost halved in a lot of companies. And so how does that play into leadership training and upskilling? Why is it still important to invest those time and that resources and employees that may be leaving in a year or two? How does all of that kind of play together?

Jessica Kim (15:34):

Well, I think people are leaving because they either have this growth path that they want. And so upskilling is all both in their job skills as well as everything else that we are talking about. And so having a really clear path in that way. And then I also think they are leaving because they don't feel like it is a cultural fit. So I love what you said that managers, leaders are the culture holders. Is that what

Mike Lamm (15:55):

You said? Just, yeah.

Jessica Kim (15:56):

S culture, champions, champions, champions. And I think a lot of this even that requires training because it is not just about how do we manage, but how do we manage as a culture? Do we value that three 30 break or not? And it has to be consistent throughout the organization. But yeah, I mean retention is huge. And if we really boil it down to why people are leaving so often, it is usually one or if not both of those things which leaders actually have a huge influence on.

Mike Lamm (16:30):

One of my mentors was at one of previous companies, the cfo, and he had this statement when people joined his team, whether were on his leadership team or just in finance in general, he said no matter how long you stay here, this is going to be the most impactful developmental experience of your career. And whether you are here for six months, you are here for a year, or you spend your career here and you retire, my goal as the CFO of this company is to make sure that you get everything. You squeeze that lemon or that arm, whatever it is, you get everything out of it. And there are companies that have taken that approach, even with their developmental programs, and that is sort of like a motto in what they say is, this is going to be the greatest developmental experience that you will have. We hope that you will stay.

(17:20)

We hope that the experiences that you get are going to show you that we are investing in your career and all of that. But there even, I forget exactly what organization it was, but I was talking to someone about it, they are okay if people, they are fine with it. If people are leaving because they, there is the boomerang effect or they know that they are contributing to a talented industry in the future, that is just going to better everything no matter what. So there are organizations that especially in the tech industry where we see people are around for maybe two years or not even sometimes building development programs that are both short and long-term focused and having this perspective that it is just going to be an amazing experience and we hope that it is going to be good enough to keep you.

Paola Peralta (18:05):

And both of you obviously mentioned that your companies, you have grown your companies from the ground up. I mean it went from being a small company to now thankfully growing bigger and bigger. And so how does size, company size play into leadership programs and development programs, and how do you make sure that you are setting up everyone for success when so many people are wearing so many different hats?

Jessica Kim (18:25):

Yeah, I definitely think size I was going to say size,

(18:34)

Size has an impact. And so we work with companies of all sizes. I also have my own company. I think the biggest difference is when we work with large companies just because of the mass, you have to have tracks and people want it because it is just you. They need to know where they are going on a mass level, and that is actually what they need. When you are small. I think it is really a unique opportunity to make it so personalized. And so one of my favorite things that we do in our company and then also with the companies we work with is start individually. You can have the freedom to say, what is your goal? What is Sasha's goal for her life? Even beyond this company? Where do you wanna be? And then is when is that an overlap and fit for what we need and that is the best productive fit? And then if any point it is not, but then based on where they wanna be, it is even beyond their particular job description. You pull in other developmental kind of opportunities and so they feel so happy and in the path that they are on. And so I think the smaller you are, more personal, you can do more. I love the personality self-assessment tests. And then based on that, you can adjust and then as you grow, you just have to be a little bit more organized. But yeah,

Mike Lamm (19:52):

I think it is also when you are smaller versus as you are growing and scaling, what you need is different. I think it is also, obviously the training and the approach will be different, but what you need in leadership is vastly different. What you needed when you were 10, 15 people, you are just growing is going to be very different from where we are now. When we are building leadership programs with 1500 employees or even bigger, we want to continue to grow it. It is leading larger teams, you are having more impact on more employees, you are leading managers of managers. And that is a totally different approach because you are developing the future leadership of the organization too when you are talking about leadership development. So it just gets more complex. But in the same way, I think that you have to think about, especially as you are growing how each piece of the curriculum around leadership development connects to the overall business strategy and your values and the culture overall. And if you ever disconnect from that, then you are in trouble, which happens when you grow as well. So I think the scaling thing just has to do with the approach. But then also overall, the skills that you need to do are

Paola Peralta (21:03):

Different. And we are coming up to the end, but I really did, I would feel like I would be remiss if I didn't ask, obviously about the future workforce. I mean, we are talking about the current workforce right now, the people who are currently in jobs, but we have, so like Gen Z is slated to be one of the biggest workforce demographics that we have. And so with a demographic that wants something so different than their predecessors out of upskilling leadership development, even out of their employers, what are some good things that employers can gear up for when it comes to these programs to kind of cater to the future workforce?

Mike Lamm (21:36):

I think flexibility obviously is a no-brainer. Like I think arming our leaders with being able to be as agile as possible with how they are going through planning their strategy, all of that is really important. I think the future generations are going to want much more flexibility and agility than we have seen before. And it is not just from where they are working, but it is how they get their work done. So there is also a technology focus there. Automation, ai, all of these really high level topics that are so over my head, I do not even know how to approach them, are going to be just the future of how we get work done. And I think that there is an expectation with this generation coming in that we kind of have those things figured out. And so we have to build the plane as it is flying. We have to understand what that is looking like. And I think really the flexibility and agility of leadership and is going to be crucial.

Jessica Kim (22:35):

And I think everything that we started off talking about this, gen Z generation of new workers are expecting to be seen as a whole person, like hands down, they will not work with at a company where they do not align with the culture the management, how they are treated, how other people are treated. And so more and more and more, that means that we need to see everybody as a whole person and human which requires a totally different skillset.

Paola Peralta (23:07):

Well, Jessica and Mike, thank you so, so much for joining us today and for talking about this topic. Genuinely. I feel like we have gone for hours, but unfortunately we only had 30 minutes. Great.

Jessica Kim (23:16):

Thank you very much.

Paola Peralta (23:17):

Of course. Thank you.